The following is the text of a conversation I had as a result of a comment made on someone else’s thread – February 2016 onwards on Facebook.
I recorded the conversation in text form as a matter of interest to any interested parties.
Knowing that God is always in control made me happy today.
How did you know that?
I know that because he simply is and I have total faith in him!
Faith is not evidence: Therefore you don’t know that.
Faith is the evidence of things not seen with the physical eyes. Even so why should I not believe in the all-powerful God who created the universe including you and I? I don’t have to wonder or have evidence I know that my Creator and Saviour is in control. Thank you.
I repeat: Faith is NOT evidence. I have faith that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists and it loves me. That’s still not evidence, and said Flying Spaghetti Monster probably in fact doesn’t exist.
If your god is all powerful and created the universe; why did he leave no trace of himself other than in a Bronze Age book of fables, why does he never talk to anyone, and why did he leave a huge quantity of evidence of evolution?
P.S. My parents created me.
Look in the mirror dear, and tell me if your parents can create one strand of hair on your head. You are evidence of his intelligent design. The heavens and the earth and everything in them are evidence of our creator.
He doesn’t talk to those who choose not to believe in him, who won’t even give him a chance to reveal himself to them. Speak for yourself; he has spoken to me many times.
You have nothing to lose, why don’t you give him a try? Try seeking him out and find what the truth is for yourself. Don’t you think that you owe it to yourself?
You seriously think that the sun rises in the East and sets in the west every day without any problems all on its own? You think it’s all an accident because of some so called big bang? You owe it to yourself to know what the truth is and it’s certainly not evolution.
My parents caused all of me to exist. I could detail the Human reproductive process but I’m sure I don’t need to. If I were evidence of intelligent design then the universe is doomed lol. – Think for a minute; why does my eye have a neural network blocking light from the light-receptor cells and thereby significantly reducing the effectiveness of the overall unit? – That’s just one example of a design-flaw which appears to indicate that evolution either went wrong or hasn’t had enough time to perfect the design: I could cite many more examples.
The heavens and the earth and everything in them are evidence of their own existence in a universe which tends toward entropy.
“He doesn’t talk to those who choose not to believe in him…” How self-defeating: This god appears to want to remain incognito.
You say he has spoken to you many times: Do you hear voices?
You say I have nothing to lose by “giving him a try”: I have my self-respect to lose, my sanity, my intelligence and my grip on reality… I owe it to myself to stay clear of religion and all the trouble it causes, plus the lies it spins, and the hatred and bigotry that it brings.
FYI The sun rises in the East and sets in the West every day without any problems due to the rotation of our planet; not because your god carries it across the sky by supernatural means.
Evolution is not an accident; it’s a natural progression in which environments change according to the laws of physics, and any life that is capable of living in any of those environments and that has managed to gain a foothold adapts to its corresponding environment over time.
I will remind you at this point that the number of evidence-backed scientific papers written and peer-reviewed in favour of evolution is continually growing in the light of new evidence & discoveries, whereas none have been successfully submitted and peer-reviewed in favour of creationism. If creationism had one ounce of truth in it then anyone who could disprove evolution would make a fortune. Unfortunately there is zero evidence for creationism and ever-growing evidence for evolution.
Don’t you owe it to yourself to stop being deceived by religion and to know the truth of reality?
Yes I know his voice very Well. And Your Parents are incapable of Keeping Themselves ALIVE for one moment. God created your parents and their representative organs and he holds everything in place by his own power.
Yes he is your God also but you have rejected him before you give yourself a chance to know him.
I understand religion has morphed into something that doesn’t align with who the true God is anymore, but I am not telling you about religion, I am telling you about an all knowing God who knows and loves you even though you don’t know him.
I am not a religious person; I have come out of religion and decided to seek my heavenly Father on my own. Won’t you please give him a try?
You are alive right now chatting with me, someone whom you don’t even know for a reason. He loves you very much and would like to hear from you. You owe it to yourself to know what the truth really is.
My grandparents created my parents.
It’s all very well saying that you have “come out of religion”… But your belief-structure and teachings are exactly the same as any (Christian) religious person, and they are still empty and lack any evidential backing; exactly the same as Christianity.
You say god this and god that… Please supply some evidence other than faith. – We still haven’t got past that point yet.
Faith is NOT evidence. Please supply some evidence.
I do agree with your last sentence: “You owe it to yourself to know what the truth really is.” – I couldn’t agree more. The truth is unfortunately not what I’d like it to be, nor what you think (what you’ve been told) it is.
I am a Christian just not religious in the sense of certain religious beliefs, although some religions are a mixture of Christianity and paganism.
I’ve already presented you with so many evidence of the existence of almighty God. All mankind, the trees, moon, stars, animals, the order of things and how they work. Look at the complexity of life and the universe and how perfectly they work together, I would have to be insane to believe that we are here by some accident and that things work out and continue to work perfect because of this big bang and this evolving.
Oh, Sharron, if you could just get to know him. I wouldn’t be wasting my time and making up stories about a God I didn’t know if I truly didn’t know him nor have a relationship with him.
All I’m saying is that you just stop for a moment and ask him if he is real, you would like to know. Ask him to reveal himself to you; you are so very precious to him. He is waiting to hear from you. You owe it to yourself. It is your choice to try!
Now there’s a religious-belief-system with at least some common-sense in it: Paganism. – But again it cannot give evidence for the existence of its gods & goddesses.
Mankind is not evidence of god: Mankind is evidence of a faulty, possibly incomplete and rather strange, process of evolution. Trees are not proof of god: They are proof of how advanced plant life can exist on a planet given enough time and the right conditions. The moon is not proof of god: The moon is an apparently lifeless companion-body of Planet Earth in space. There are many many types of star; none of them are evidence of god: Many of them are evidence of thermonuclear reactions producing the heavier-elements required for the evolution of complex organic molecules. How the universe works is not proof of god; in fact probably the opposite.
You have again failed to provide any solid evidence to support your claims. – You restate pretty much the same thing every time; a typical trait of Christianity grasping at straws for evidence that’s not there. I think, after three failures, it’s probably time to admit defeat, don’t you?
After over 50 years of searching I have come to the only logical conclusion: There probably is no god.
Don’t you see? All these things are evidence of God, they declared who he is, and they are his creation. They are the evidence that he exists.
And yes mankind is faulty because of sins, and sin is the result of not living within the laws of the LORD who created all things. This is why we have a short lifespan, we are Spirit beings living in a physical body for a short period of time, and when our time on earth is ended we put off this faulty flesh.
God did not cast us away when we sinned he give us a second chance to get it right, this why we are living in such chaos, death and pain, because we refuse to live by his Holy rules.
He made a way for us to live with him again, by taking on flesh like us, then dying in our place.
Do you believe love exists? Love is a powerful state of being. Love is not an accident. Love is God and God is love.
Again; these things are NOT evidence of god. Any more than pasta is evidence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
You say “they are his creation” – without providing any evidence of that whatsoever.
You’re saying that the Human eye is badly designed because of sins? Why do mice have an even shorter lifespan? Have mice sinned more?
You make huge sweeping statements – without any evidence again.
The reason we live in such a mess is because we’re too primitive: For example if you let a race of beings – who worship their own version of an imaginary sky fairy who tells each group to kill all the other groups – have advanced weapons & technology… Well guess what’s going to happen?!
To say that your god is love is an oxymoron. You should check this out: https://buggerallon.tv/bible .
Like I said, everything is all twisted, has been for thousands of years. No one can recognize the truth anymore.
You were asleep; when you awoke it was very wet outside. How do you know that it rained? You saw the evidence that rain came, you did not see it falling but you knew it rained. How different is that scenario from believing in the evidence that God left for us as proof that he is real?
You don’t see the wind but you can see evidence that the wind exists by the movements of things and by feeling it on your face. How different is that from believing God is real after seeing all the evidence of his creation?
You didn’t see the gradual change over millions of years; but we have the fossils as evidence – yet you refuse to believe this theory backed by physical evidence and yet you believe in a sky-fairy because you have no better explanation: “I don’t understand – therefore God!”.
How do you know – how can you say; backed up with solid evidence – that what we see is god’s creation? To do this you first have to believe in god; then you can say “Look at this: – It must be God’s creation; therefore proof that God exists!” That’s proof enough to someone who believes in god; but it’s not even the slightest evidence to someone who doesn’t believe in god.
It seemed no matter what I say or how I say it, you are still failing to see the truth before your eyes. Millions of years of fossil do not prove evolution, which is man’s theory, it only strengthens the fact that God has always been around, proving his creation.
Instead of doubting what you are unable to comprehend with your carnal mind, I suggest that you leave no stone unturned. Seek out God, it seemed with all your 50 years of searching you haven’t give him a chance to reveal himself to you.
You owe it to yourself to look to one more source, keep an open mind and don’t let unbelief cloud your mind and your freedom to find out what the truth is.
Since I am unable to convince you, then it is up to you to seek out creator God, if he is real or not.
In Yahushua’s Holy name I pray you find rest and peace, but above all things I pray that you will seek to find him, before it’s too late.
There is no second chance after you die, it will be judgment time. He loves you very much, to the point of dying in your place, but you will have to accept this selfless sacrifice to be saved from everlasting death; unless of course you don’t care to know him.
“Millions of years of fossil do not prove evolution” – Apparently it does; particularly when those fossils chronologically fit together to form a chain of ancestry. Yes it’s man’s theory: I haven’t heard of the allegedly most intelligent being in all infinity coming up with even one theory. We were left a few scientific impossibilities based upon Bronze Age understanding when they made up the passages in the Bible; but other than that this being has given us no scientific understanding whatsoever. It makes you wonder whether he exists at all, as do many other things.
God has had 50 years to reveal himself to me, yet all I’ve ever found is evidence against his existence. – I wonder why that is? Maybe because he doesn’t exist?
You’re asking me to abandon all logic and reason, and to take on-board a set of groundless beliefs and superstitions based upon fantasy and faith alone. Further to that you try to sew doubt and fear in my mind by using scare tactics. I thought doubt and fear were attributed to Satan? : –
“In Yahushua’s Holy name I pray you find rest and peace, but above all things I pray that you will seek to find him, before it’s too late.”
“There is no second chance after you die, it will be judgment time. He loves you very much, to the point of dying in your place, but you will have to accept this selfless sacrifice to be saved from everlasting death; unless of course you don’t care to know him,”
So you’re saying that unless I believe in a ridiculous concept that I’m fairly certain is impossible and doesn’t exist; I’ll be judged when I die. – That’s handy isn’t it: I’ll be supposedly judged after death, and nobody will ever know; but nobody can ever prove it didn’t happen.
If he loves me so much then why does he make it so totally unreasonable to believe in him and why does he threaten me? Is that love? Not any type of love that I’ve ever heard of. You say he died in my place. – I’m meant to just accept that and believe it without any evidence again? I’m getting a stronger and stronger feeling that these beliefs you’re conveying are false, and that this god doesn’t exist.
…And now it’s your turn: You seem like a reasonable Human Being who is capable of logical thought. – Yet I wonder as to how you can accept anything that clearly doesn’t hold water and that has no solid evidence to support it?
At the end of the day; when all is said and done – using rationale and logic – the only realistic conclusion one can arrive at is that God probably doesn’t exist.
You said God probably doesn’t exist, what if he does? You believe that Satan, the root of all evil exists but you do not believe that God who is Holy exists.
And no I am not trying to scare you, if you feel that way I apologize, just telling the truth like it is, yes the truth does hurt sometimes, nonetheless it must be told.
You have 50 years to come to him to find out what the truth is. I am trying to show you the truth how is that sewing doubt?
You don’t even know him but already you are judging him based on your misunderstandings of him. Yes he loves you with all his heart and you should find out what this love is all about, who he is and all your questions can be answered by him.
Yes, I love him, I believe in him, I trust him and he is my only reason for living. Without him I’m lost and this is my stance.
Why not find out for yourself, like I said you owe it to yourself to try and find out more about this God of Creation. I really hope to see you in heaven; I want to be the first to hug you.
Let’s start by clearing up a misunderstanding: I didn’t say that I believe that Satan exists. I also didn’t say that I don’t believe he exists. – I probably should have said that I don’t believe he exists either. I was referring to Satan because I felt that you’d be comfortable with the association of fear & doubt with Satan, that’s all.
What if God does exist? Well we’re getting very close to invoking Pascal’s Wager here; but let’s assume, for now, that he does. I’ll want to know why he has made himself so unknowable and so intensely difficult for anyone to reach. I’d want to know why he’s hiding and watching while his creation does everything but totally annihilating itself. I have many many questions; including how demanding unconditional servitude with the penalty of eternal agony is love. – What kind of love is that? I’m not angry; I’m bewildered at his seeming incompetence.
I’ll want to know if how the Bible describes him is true, and if it is how is anyone supposed to love and respect a genocidal sociopath with obvious personality disorders of gross magnitude.
…But for now I’m sticking with reality and going with the evidence: The chances that god exists are very minimal; and even if he did exist, the chances of me selecting the right religion and not pissing him off are very low anyway.
I’ve had 50 years to discover the truth. It took somewhere in the region of that long but I’ve discovered it: I can’t prove either way; but it’s unlikely that there is a god.
You say: “You don’t even know him but already you are judging him based on your misunderstandings of him.”
How can you say that I have misunderstandings of someone who I believe probably doesn’t exist?
“Yes he loves you with all his heart and you should find out what this love is all about” – Otherwise he’ll torture you forever. That is so loving.
“Without him I’m lost and this is my stance.” I think you’d better sit down for this; because when you realise that you’re fuelling all this illusion from inside yourself – from your “God Delusion” to use a Dawkins-term, then you’re going to feel very different, perhaps uncomfortably so.
However there are many many people all over the planet who have already been through this; and I’m one of them would you believe. They are growing in numbers and they even exist and grow in religion-crazy America. These people will give you all the help and support you need when you finally face reality.
They, we, are atheists; and I’m hoping that you’ll see sense and stop living your life for the benefit of the church so that religionists can live in luxury, but live your life for the benefit of the Human species and for your happiness instead.
I hope to hear from you again. I know that many Christians in America have a deep distaste for atheists – so I’ll understand if you blank me; although it’ll be a shame as I was hoping we could be online-friends, even if we never agree on religion or lack of it. I’m also hoping that you look again at the entire situation from a more humanistic and secular standpoint.
Whatever the case I hope to hear back from you.
Since you mentioned Satan and associated him with fear you have displayed belief.
Since you think that God doesn’t exist, why judge that someone? And trust me if he were hiding, no living soul would be alive today, Satan, his demons and his human agents would have already annihilated all flesh. It is because our creator God who is in control has been holding back the forces of darkness.
Man has chosen darkness rather than light, doing what is right in their own sight. God is giving everyone chances after chances to turn from evil. He also has given everyone free will to choose or reject him and he will not force himself on anyone. You must come to him freely, just as you are, he will never turn you away.
Do really know what reality is? He is not asking you to choose religion, he’s asking you to come to him and ask for the truth, go to him, not religion.
Based on your comments about him even though you said you didn’t believe he exists, I would say it’s a misunderstanding.
And no, he will not torture anyone, your rejection of the LORD who is the essence of life itself and outside him life cannot exist. Those who rejected him rejected life; reject the will to live, which would be your choice not to live in him.
Again I’m left religion a long time ago; I’m talking about relationship with your Heavenly Father. I don’t know how to explain this but I have this compassion to you as I type these words I’m tearing, even though I don’t know you, you might reject this, but I love you.
No I don’t disdain anyone because of their beliefs, neither do our Father. There can only be one truth and I choose to believe in the one true God, and Saviour of our souls, I write to you in Yahushua’s holy name.
I hope and pray that you find the truth.
Again: Satan definitely doesn’t exist. (Satan is just an excuse for incompetence and failure.) God probably doesn’t exist. You’re taking my words out of context when you say: “Since you think that God doesn’t exist, why judge that someone?” I said: –
“What if God does exist? Well we’re getting very close to invoking Pascal’s Wager here; but let’s assume, for now, that he does. I’ll want to know why he has made himself so unknowable and so intensely difficult for anyone to reach…”
Saying that man (Humans) have “chosen darkness rather than light” is basically total superstitious gobbledygook. There is a balance of good and bad, of darkness and light, of advantageous and malefic. The Utopian dream doesn’t and cannot exist. Humans are being Humans; a fairly primitive species who think in a restricted and sometimes circular manner. Saying that they’ve “chosen darkness” is like saying that someone chose to be born black. Humans can be assholes at the best of times; it’s just the Human way. It’s not evil as such; although it may well be foolhardy in many cases, primitive and reckless in other ways.
You keep telling me about God. – OK I hear you; but first prove that he exists. – ‘See you’re making claims about an entity that I don’t believe exists. It would be similar if I made claims to you that Hare’ Krishna is …yada yada… And when I say prove it I mean prove it; not “Oh look at the trees – They prove God exists…” – Newsflash: They don’t. They prove that you have no explanation and therefore attribute the trees to a God that you were taught to believe in when you were growing up. You’ve never met this god, you can’t prove that he exists, you have to hope that he exists and keep convincing yourself that he exists, and that he’s got your back, and that he loves you… But at the end of the day it’s all an illusion.
On that note, did you know that it has been scientifically demonstrated that the creative part of the brain floods with activity during a religious experience. – Yes that means exactly what you hoped it didn’t: It means that you’re creating God inside of you. – Just like most other believers.
People don’t reject God. They don’t make it something personal and say “I reject this God fellow who I know exists…” People reject the illogical and outdated concept of a Bronze Age sky fairy because it makes absolutely no sense and it has no substance. Some people believe because it’s nice to feel loved and believe that they have a bodyguard on duty all the time… But it’s an illusion, a fantasy generated by the mind.
Finally I feel honoured and humbled by your words, and I love you as a fellow Human Being and a friend too. Smile emoticon
Have you ever read the Bible? I believe it was inspired by our creator, God, Yahweh. In it we are told that he created all these things, trees including, evidence of his existence.
Creator God is more than a brain wave, I have a relationship with him, I’ve heard his voice, and he has revealed things to me. Besides, I’d rather die believing that he is who I believe he is, than dying and find he is real, but I have rejected him. At this point I have nothing to lose.
Rejecting God is when someone refused his offering of Salvation by turning away from him; they simply do not believe in him and therefore do not honour him or his laws.
I chose to believe what I believe and you choose to believe what you believe, I have no authority to judge you. I choose to testify of my faith in him, that he is Lord of Lord’s and God of all Gods, the king of kings the creator of all.
I hope you have a good day.
I’ve read the entire Bible to all intents & purposes from cover to cover: The New International Version, King James Version, and a few others. Do you really think that I’d be disbelieving and reasoning against Christian theism without first studying it? – Yes I’ve studied it in depth, as well as the history of Christianity, as well as a number of other belief systems. I’m basically an amateur theological scholar, at least to a degree… For instance were you aware that the Biblical Israelites were probably a break-away sect from Ba’al worship and took up the worship of Ba’al’s brother god Yahweh (Ba’al and Yahweh were two of the sons of the god Ael who gave his name to IsrAEL.) as they were forced into a nomadic existence? The Biblical Israelites; followers of Yahweh, turned upon their own kinsmen who worshiped Yahweh’s brother Ba’al and killed most of them as they conquered their lands and introduced a one-god theism which eventually morphed into Christianity.
In other words at least a half of the Old Testament is documenting a religious war waged by nomadic terrorists as seen from the viewpoint of the nomadic terrorists. We have something similar to that going on today. – There’s not much that’s new under the sun.
The difference between you and me is that while you’ve read the Bible and liked the sound of all the nice bits of it and what it appears to be promising; I’ve read it all, studied it all, and I know not just what’s ‘on the board’ as it were – I also know the wiring under the board. In some cases I even know who wired it.
IF it was inspired by Yahweh then Yahweh condones rape, slavery, incest, murder, genocide, and much more. If that’s the type of creature you want as a role-model then I feel sorry for you.
I hope you’re aware that your entire experience of life (Mine too; and everyone else.) is at its core a series of brainwaves which induce connections in a massive neural matrix in your brain; in particular the cerebellum. A religious experience is as much a physical brainwave as any other experience.
You say you’ve heard God’s voice… Now I’m starting to get worried about you. – There was a man in England in the 1970s who heard God’s voice. They managed to catch him after he killed several people. As far as I’m aware he died in a secure psychiatric unit.
Additionally to that Islamic State terrorists hear the voice of Allah…
You say also “Besides, I’d rather die believing that he is who i believe he is, than dying and find he is real, but I have rejected him. At this point i have nothing to lose. ”
You’ve been suckered by Pascal’s Wager: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
You go on to state “Rejecting God is when someone refused his offering of Salvation by turning away from him, they simple do not believe in him and therefore do not honour him nor his laws”
I’m an entertainer; but I’m not as famous as, say, Lady Gaga. If one of my fans says to one of their friends “Hey you should check out Sharron-Idol” and her friend says “Sharron WHO? – I don’t believe this Sharron-Idol even exists!” That person isn’t rejecting me. Even if my fan goes on to tell their friend about my new line of merch, my emailing-list opt-in offer https://buggerallon.tv/optin , and my win-a mug competition https://buggerallon.tv/mug , if the friend chooses not to take action they’re not rejecting me – they first want proof that I exist – which they can get from Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sharronidolmusic and from my website: https://buggerallon.tv and from Twitter: https://twitter.com/shazzalive … God still has no solid evidence.
You haven’t yet answered my first question: “How did you know that [God is always in control.]?” – In fact you haven’t even come up with satisfactory proof that God even exists yet; despite our reams of conversation. You’ve reached out to my emotions with claims of “It’s awesome; therefore God”, but you’ve still given me no concrete evidence.
Imagine you were testifying for God in a court: Your testimony is all hearsay and isn’t backed by any solid evidence; therefore the judge or the jury would reject it.
Have an awesome Tuesday night; and don’t do anything that I wouldn’t do: But if you do; don’t get caught. < --My catchphrase.
I hope you do not base your beliefs on the history of Christianity, which for most part do not glorify God.
You are right, there is nothing new under the sun, same thing happening as before, Satan is making sure to pervert, twist, take away, add, and everything else possible to get rid of the pure Truth of our creator God.
If someone witnessed an event, and that story is told over and over again, and especially by some with their own agenda who don’t want the truth to be told, by some who didn’t get the story right in the first place, but there is a sacred book hidden for years now found that really told the true story, but these evil men resurfaced to try and twist the truth all over again. This leaves me with one choice, to the source, our Creator Yahweh.
I’m sure if someone wants to know about a particular individual they would find a way to get to know that person.
Not everyone who hears the LORD are killers or imposters, or wannabes, now you are painting everyone with a broad brush.
Again, you see the evidence of his existence everywhere, including yourself. He showed himself in the person of Yahushua/Jesus and he will return to show himself again, very soon, all eyes will see him.
The things of God are as foolishness to them who do not know him. I’ve decided to stand with him, no matter the name calling, the ridicule, the harsh words. I know that my redeemer lives and he is the beginning and the end of all things, without him, there is no life. You will soon find this out, and you will remember the conversations you and I are having now.
Try asking him for the truth, you owe it to yourself.
The history of Christianity says a lot about the true nature of Christianity.
You appear to seem so certain of this religion which started thousands of years ago as a renegade bunch of Bronze Age terrorists who worshiped the brother of Ba’al who was considered the true god back then. You keep making claims, such as: –
“Satan is making sure to pervert, twist, take away, add, and everything else possible to get rid of the pure Truth of our creator God.”
Yet you include no citations, backing, or evidence with these claims. – As such they are no more than hot air.
How am I evidence of the existence of a fictional sky-fairy? Again you make a massive claim: “He showed himself in the person of Yahushua/Jesus and he will return to show himself again, very soon, all eyes will see him.” Huge claims require big evidence; so please supply the evidence to back up this statement. Please remember that statements like “It says so in the Bible” and “I don’t understand; therefore God.” are not evidence.
You say “The things of God are as foolishness to them who do not know him”. Which version/translation of the Bible is that from? – I’ve never heard 1 Corinthians 2:14 put in exactly that way.
Do people call you names and use harsh words at you because of your beliefs? Isn’t doing so illegal/in violation of the constitution or something, aka religious discrimination? I’d go to the law about it if I were you.
You pre-close with another huge statement: HOW do you KNOW what you claim? If you do actually have what you consider to be real supernatural experiences then I’m surprised that you haven’t written a dissertation on it for scientific review in order to establish proof of the existence of your God. In doing so you’d be doing Humanity a huge favour if what you claim to be true is in fact true…
Isn’t it amazing how the people who make such fantastical claims of the truth of supernatural experience are always unwilling to present any evidence for their claims? – We both know why that is, don’t we?
I must say that maybe at least one of my prayers to your deity may have been answered: Years ago I asked God to show me the truth beyond truth, and as a result of what I learned I became an atheist.
Have a good one. – Peace. X
Hi dear, I am feeling a bit under the weather, seems like the flu or something.
Here we go again with the proof thing. The old and new testaments are testimonies of men and women who had amazing encounter with God, if you/they don’t believe them, how can you believe me or anyone else? When Yahushua, who was God in flesh walked the Earth most people did not believe that he was who he said he was.
You are going to believe what you want to believe and it seemed like if God himself was to show himself to you, you still wouldn’t believe.
People who call me names or use harsh words against me don’t know what they are doing. I forgive them and pray that their eyes will be opened to the Truth.
Life is too short for me to fight ot fuss with anyone for any reason, at the end of my journey I have to answer to my actions and only mine and on my journey back to my Eternal Father I Have the Pleasure of Meeting or Talking To People Such As yourself. Hey before our conversation I never knew you existed and I’m pleased to know you, even though our belief is different. I sincerely hope that you find your way back to Father. I hope to see you there some day.
Hey again. I’m sorry to hear you’ve not been well lately. I hope you start feeling better as soon as possible.
Proof is a necessity in order for anything to be taken seriously. If I were to say I died last night but was raised from the dead this morning you wouldn’t believe me right? If, in 100 years, (Which is less than the amount of time between the alleged life of Jesus and the writing of the Gospels.) somebody wrote an account of me rising from the dead, you still wouldn’t believe it, right? Yet you believe the Bible. – Why? It doesn’t make sense.
If, on the other hand, my corpse had been examined by a doctor who had declared me deceased; yet I had risen back to life the next day and had been medically checked out, verified as alive having been dead, and a scientific study was conducted on me and papers written about me, all in confirmation of my death and resurrection; you’d have very little choice but to believe.
Why would you disbelieve me in the earlier instance? – The answer is that there is no proof, just someone writing about it a hundred years later. – Yet if there were proof you’d either believe my story or you’d doubt the claims of the doctor who declared me deceased.
What I’m saying here is that a testimony written long after the supposed event by somebody who probably wasn’t even alive at the time of said event is NOT proof; no matter how you like to spin it.
You say that the people who testified “had amazing encounter with God”. Have you any evidence for this claim?
You go on to say “When Yahushua, who was God in the flesh, walked the Earth most people did not believe that he was who he said he was.” – Again where is the evidence for this? “It says so in the Bible.” is NOT evidence. – It’s hearsay.
“You are going to believe what you want to believe and it seemed like if God himself was to show himself to you, you still wouldn’t believe.”
Wrong. I am going to believe what is proven to be true and/or the argument which has the greatest weight of solid evidence to back it up. IF God himself appeared to me and was able to prove that He was who he claimed to be then I’d believe that He exists. Furthermore if He could convince me by solid logical reasoning that He was worthy of being worshiped by me then I’d do so.
People who insult you know EXACTLY what they are doing, unless they are suffering from a recognised mental illness. – You should hold such people who are in their right mind to account legally.
If you believe that you will live forever in a paradise in Heaven with God then why are you worried about the length of Human life here on Earth? – I think we both know the answer to that, don’t we?
It’s great to converse with you too – despite it being limited to the internet in typed text on Facebook. I am honoured to be able to strike up a reasonable conversation with you in such a short time, having only recently met you online. May I echo that I am pleased to know you also. You will by now no doubt appreciate that I’ll only believe in anything if there is at least some large weight of factual evidence behind it; no matter how convenient for me it would be if it were true. In the light of this I am so looking forward to you or anyone else coming up with a fact-based, evidence-substantiated, solid and irrefutable argument which is supported by good logic, that what you’re saying is true. Unfortunately to date nobody has been able to do so, and any belief in what you say can at best be by faith alone.
Surely a being that is the greatest being in infinity can provide at least some convincing fact-based evidence? I look forward to that happening; but I won’t hold my breath.
For now – regardless of all the above – the most important thing is that you return to good health, and I wish you a speedy recovery.
All the very best to you.
Thank you for the well wishes, I’m already on the road to recovery, thanking my Father.
Who said anything about me being worried about the length of human life on earth? That’s the least of my concern, a matter of fact, I can’t wait to go back home. I know and have this incredible urge to go back where I know I came from. I don’t belong here; I’m just a visitor and a stranger in this realm and in this body. Go ahead sneer at me. You won’t be the first nor will you be the last to ridicule me for saying this.
I pray that you will find your way back to your original state and that you keep an open mind to realize the truth.
About the bible being heresy, that’s your opinion, and you are entitled to it.
God doesn’t demand worship from anyone nor does he need it to be who he is. He receives worship from those who believes he is worthy – worthy because he is righteous, holy, forgiving, patient, the giver of life and creator of all things. Whether you believe this or not this is my stance.
What is your hope? Do You Have Any Hope Of A Future Life? Do you have a reason for living? I mean what drives you?
This is a very complex would and life we live in. Everything in nature survived by rules and obedience to these rules and if by chance these rules are broken chaos erupted. Man Are No Different, these rules and laws sure as heck did not came out of the thin air, but was put in place by an intelligent conscious being. The rulers of this world have rules and laws designed to keep everyone in line, where do you you suppose they got that knowledge from?
I admit that I may not have all the answers to your questions about my father and I will not pretend to have all the answers. But one thing I know is that I will always stand by his side, I will always believe in him even though I may not understand everything yet. Like an unlearned child, still growing, ever learning and seeking Father for more of him every day, I know that everything will fall into place one day. My journey is one of steady growth, it’s choosing to believe all of him or believing nothing at all, either way, we all have a choice to make in this great and wonderful journey we call life. I’d rather live my life believing in something great and wonderful to come, than believing in this great void of nothingness, in the end in my belief I have nothing to lose, believing I have everything to gain. For me I refused to gamble with my life’s future, I may only have one lifetime in the flesh to make a choice and get it right.
Again, praying that Father will reveal himself to you in a profound way, as some children are in need of more help than others, you might be in need of a heart transplant (spiritually speaking). You might just be the beautiful vessel our Father use to tell a more profound testimony of who he is.
Shalom, and love you in Yahushua’s holy name. Do have a wonderful day.
I’m glad you’re recovering. I very much doubt that your recovery has anything to do with God; even if He does exist.
You said “Life is too short for me to fight or fuss with anyone for any reason.” If you weren’t worried about life’s length you’d not be saying that it was too short. – But yes it is short, and I’m excited to be alive; no matter for how long that may be. You speak of going back home: Do you have memories of a previous existence? Perhaps there is some truth in reincarnation?
As far as I’m aware my original state was non-existence. Maybe my eventual state may be same? – I don’t know.
You believe that the God of the Bible is “righteous, holy, forgiving, patient, the giver of life and creator of all things.” Allow me to enlighten you a little – according to scripture: –
The Bible + the God of the Bible Condones & Encourages the Following: –
1. Rape: Zechariah 14:1, 2 Samuel 12:11, Deuteronomy 22:28
2. Slavery: Leviticus 25:44, Exodus 21:7, Deuteronomy 22:28, 1 Peter 2:18
3. Torture, Revelation 9:4, Revelation 9:10
4. Child Abuse: Genesis 22:1-1, 10, Exodus 12:29, 2 Kings 2:23, Psalm 137: 9 Jeremiah 19:9
5. Punish the Innocent: Romans 9:11-22, Genesis 3:15-17
6. Genital Mutilation: Genesis 17:10
7. Human Sacrifice: Judges 11:29, Hebrews 10:10
8. Genocide: Genesis 6 & 7, Numbers, 21, 24, 31 Deuteronomy 2…
‘Maybe not quite so righteous and holy after all eh?
I stated that the Biblical accounts were hearsay. I did not state that the Bible was heresy. – Why twist my words?
It is indeed a complex world that we live in; ruled by many laws of science/physics. Creationists would have it that these laws were made just so that life could exist on this planet. The truth is that life on this planet adapted to fit with those laws. Life that did not adapt was unable to survive. Note that the rules were not put in place by any supernatural intelligence; no matter how much primitive Humans would like to flatter themselves by thinking that everything was made for them… Remember that we once thought that the Earth was the centre of the universe and that everything else revolved around it, plus that God was up above the clouds out of sight. In fact the ancient Greeks used to believe that God lived on top of Mount Olympus. When Humans climbed to the top of mount Olympus in the early 20th Century they found… Snow, ice, rock, but no God. When we flew above the clouds we found lots of thin air, but no God. We flew into space and found many things, but still no God, We looked into the universe and found galaxies, vastly unimaginable distances, and eons of time, but no God. Now the believers say he’s in another dimension. When we finally don’t find him there then what?
You say you want to choose to believe all of God or nothing at all: Aren’t those 2 choices identical in nature? – There is no proof that God even exists, and belief in legends is in essence as good as no belief… In fact it’s worse than no belief, because at least by having no belief you believe in no untruths. If you believe in legends the chances are that you probably do believe in at least some untruths.
You say ” I’d rather live my life believing in something great and wonderful to come, than believing in this great void of nothingness, in the end in my belief I have nothing to lose, believing I have everything to gain. For me i refused to gamble with my life’s future…”
I’d rather be honest with myself and admit that I don’t know what is to come after this life; rather than try to fool and convince myself of some Utopian afterlife based upon some ridiculous legend invented by pre-scientific nomadic terrorists.
Let’s face it; you’re caught in the paradox of Pascal’s Wager. – That’s gambling with your life for an easier possibility without any real idea of the eventual outcome; just false hope.
My reason for living is to be a beneficial person towards the overall good of my species; to achieve as much as I am able and to assist in the survival of Humanity in some way, no matter how trivial. I also wish to help to prevent future generations from wasting their precious life that they have by chasing after some false hope that seeks to control them by means of fear and manipulation of perception; preventing them from reaching their full potential and wasting their life by having them strive for a fantastical afterlife that probably never actually happens. – AKA religion.
I hope that your day is as awesome as life itself. I hope that you’ll come to see sense, and make the most of the awesome and highly improbable chance of the life that you have right now.
I’m really not worried about the short lifespan, just saying, I’d rather use my time wisely than waste it by fussing over trivial things.
And yes I attribute my recovery to God who by his intelligent design causes my body to heal itself.
Yes, I was reminded of my previous existence with my father.
I miss read your statement about heresy, for that I apologize.
Do you see how easy it is for one’s original accounts to be retold by error? Thousands of years have passed, and the story of our God has been retold, rewritten, revised, twisted, they have added and subtracted from the Truth. I know that it would be even worse if the enemy of the LORD wants to deceive everyone, he would paint a dire picture of Father to cause everyone to doubt, reject, hate and disobey our creator God.
He will write lies, twist his word s, add, and remove from the truth to the point where the truth is hardly recognized. This is why I go to my Father directly for the truth. I don’t know about you, but I owe it to myself to find out what the truth really is, meaning seeking my father and asking for the truth and I am willing to give him a chance to tell me instead of believing what the enemy of the LORD wants to believe.
The Lord said to me, the Bible is like the Garden of Eden, in it is the tree of Life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This meaning Satan’s versions of the LORD are intermingled with the truth.
How easy it is for you to believe the worst of our Father, you owe it to yourself to try to find out from him, and yes try again.
So you see man for ages have been looking for him, for what? Curiosity? When we look for him for the right reasons, that is to love him and honour him, then we will find him, he will come to us and reveal himself to us, we will find that he lives right here in the hearts of them that believe in him. You seriously think that such powerful God would set himself up to be seen by unbelievers? You truly do not know him.
I know what I believe, God is a supernatural God, a spirit being, who can manifest to be seen in the physical if he chooses to.
Why do you try so hard to convince me that my faith/belief is nothing but a delusion? Does it make you feel better about your own unbelief? Life is infinitely more complex than you give it credit, and there are whole spiritual dimensions that will make your heart fail.
I hope you will reconsider who, what, when, where you are and really value this awesome life that was given to you by your father in heaven.
I’m not actually trying to convince you of anything as such; not in a devious way. What I’m doing here is presenting the facts; the truth that you’re searching for. It might not be attractive, it might not tickle your fancy like thought of never dying and living in a perfect world forever with the most awesome being always having your back, but it’s the truth based upon facts – rather than legend and fairy-stories.
Am I 100% correct in my beliefs? Possibly not, but I’m doing my best. You see we live on this planet for up to 120 years. I’m not sure there was anything before it; I don’t think there was, though I might be wrong – ? I don’t know what comes after it either. – Possibly nothing, possibly something. I’m sure that if anything does come after this life, it isn’t a fairy-story based upon the ramblings of an ancient breakaway terrorist faction akin to Islamic State, who delighted in killing and conquest, as well as slavery, genocide, rape, torture… et cetera, in order to spread their religion – exactly like I.S. are trying to do today. I seek to educate and enlighten people, rather than seeing them believe ridiculous myths as a replacement for reality; just because those myths sound better than reality.
So if God is real and can easily manifest visibly in the physical – why doesn’t he do so today in a way that science can verify; then there’d be no question as to his existence? It can only be because he doesn’t exist, and/or that he needs the energy from our faith without revelation in order to survive.
As things stand; if God exists, he’s a mafia boss. A mafia boss says “Pay me protection money or I’ll break your legs.” God is saying “You will love and worship me or I’ll torture and kill you.” In fact a mafia boss wouldn’t and couldn’t torture you forever; so God is the ultimate super-gangster. – If God exists and if the stories are true. In fact he’s the ultimate super-gangster who is 100% incognito. He hides away. – So you’ll never be able to identify him even if he gets busted.
“When we look for him for the right reasons, that is to love him and honour him, then we will find him, he will come to us and reveal himself to us, we will find that he lives right here in the hearts of them that believe in him.”
I don’t pay protection money; so just like the mafia, he can do one. I don’t want to join the mafia either, just so that I can meet the boss. – Either he does what any sensible sane & intelligent being would do and say “Here I am: I’m God and I run things…” – or he can stay inaccessibly hidden away and ignored: I refuse to play this stupid game of cat and mouse, or tail-chasing.
If God is supernatural and can only exist on a much higher level than us then it’s not possible to be able to understand him anyway; so he would be of no use to us whatsoever and it would be pointless even trying to associate with him.
I don’t believe the worst of your god: If He exists then I can only believe what the Bible says about him: Genocidal, hateful, vengeful, childish, jealous, immoral, destructive – in fact the Bible shows that He embodies all of the worst qualities of immorality that Humanity is or has ever been capable of, as well as the best. In fact the Bible paints Him as both the ultimate evil and the ultimate good.
The Bible also says that this [imaginary] Satan character is the ultimate evil. That’s unfortunate; as it means that there is twice as much evil as there is good in God’s creation. It says that God will bring an end to evil eventually: Well that would remove half of God himself. – Something’s not right there. The Bible is full of self-defeating fables.
Paganism is a belief-system that speaks in terms of dark and light: Both being of the same body but being different sides of that whole: Dark cannot exist without light and light cannot exist without darkness. Everything exists in the shadow-realm between ultimate light and ultimate darkness. – That actually makes a lot of sense; but Paganism also has many many deities; none of which can be proven to exist.
Am I more in favour of Pagan beliefs than Christian? – Yes. Pagan beliefs have been around much longer, they make more sense, and many of them seem to be at least based upon reality, love, and survival. Christianity is based upon fables, fear, and domination. I know which I’d rather have… But I choose neither because I can’t make sense of the idea of a deity or deities. I do not and cannot at this point believe in deities.
God did not cause your body to heal itself by intelligent design:
Imagine there were 200 people on a planet: 100 of those people’s wounds healed and their diseases ended and they got better. The other 100’s wounds didn’t heal, and they caught diseases for life, until those diseases eventually killed them. Given time the people whose wounds didn’t heal and who couldn’t shake off disease would all get infections, bleed to death, and die out – leaving only people whose bodies healed themselves. – That’s basic evolution; and it makes sense.
Finally; preventing people from harassing you and discriminating against you is not “fussing over trivial things”: It’s standing up for your rights as a Human citizen. – I suggest that you do so.
All the very best. – Sharron X
P.S. I’m an former Pagan, and I could tell you a lot more about spirituality and the spiritual realm than you could ever imagine… But just because there are other ‘realities’ on other planes of existence, that doesn’t mean that there is a god. – Or a devil either.
Also: If, as you say
“The Bible is like the Garden of Eden; in it are the tree of Life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This, therefore, means that Satan’s versions of the LORD are intermingled with the truth.”
Then the Bible is inaccurate and not to be trusted. – I’m glad we’ve managed to arrive jointly at that conclusion. – In fact it means that whichever interpretation of the riddles in the Bible that you postulate, it’s in part wrong, the truth is hidden forever, and it can be discounted.
Anyone would have to be insane to believe that, bang! Here we are, all that exists are a result of a big explosion then we evolved into what we are now, because I don’t.
And yes I admit that I believe that the biblical account have been tampered with. A very dire picture has been painted of our Saviour and yes I will defend his Holy and righteousness with my life and that’s my stance.
There is good and evil existing in the world and there are the children of the wicked one, Satan, and the children of the kingdom of God living in our world. And yes God has destroyed the children of the wicked one before and he will finish the job once and for all, he has given everyone ample time to turn away from evil but many choose to believe and follow the disgusting lies of the devil, who has been trying for ages to pervert who God truly is, a righteousness and Just God.
Allow me to choose what I feel and experience. And yes you will get your chance to meet him face to face again.
The wicked works of man is not God’s doing, rape, murder, etc? They are the works of the wicked one and his evil children, and why not blame the whole mess on your enemy? Satan hates God and God’s creation, man. What better way to destroy Father’s reputation and deceive mankind but to lie, twist, add, subtract from the truth?
You seemed angry at a deity you may or may not believe, at least you admit that you are not sure what the truth is, but that alone should tell you that there are more to all the stories that are told. Don’t you think that you owe it to yourself to look more in depth into the fact that an intelligent being is at work keeping things from falling apart?
Again you owe it to yourself.
Have a good day.
Your first paragraph opens with “Anyone would have to be insane to believe …” and ends with “…, because I don’t.” It appears that you are saying that anyone who doesn’t believe as you do is insane.
Your opening paragraph also demonstrates your total lack of scientific understanding: “Bang! Here we are,” – I don’t know where you get your scientific teaching from, but I suggest you change the source.
The Big Bang appeared from a singularity of some description. No-one knows what caused the singularity to be there. Some theories have been postulated; but none are currently testable, and may not be testable for a long long time.
The Big Bang changed the nature of at least some of the energy present and caused it to become matter and antimatter. The matter and antimatter began annihilating each other but, for some reason, which we don’t yet understand, matter won.
At that time matter was mainly hydrogen gas, which eventually clumped into massive and incredibly hot stars under gravity…
– I don’t have the space or time to write a science book. I’ll have to ask you to do your own research into the subject.
…So you don’t believe the current scientific understanding. Your alternative explanation is that it was all created by a supernatural being: Bang! And there it is. Your version doesn’t include any science whatsoever, and is untestable and unverifiable. – Yet you ask me to believe it?
Your line of apologetics says that because the Bible has been tampered with it says all these things such as God supporting slavery, genocide, rape, torture, child abuse…
…So a perfect and ultimately intelligent god who is all powerful and omnipotent can’t stop his book of riddles from being edited against him? I wonder why that is?
You’re telling me all about God & Satan; neither of whom I believe exist. Your words are wasted. The idea of God & Satan comes from the Bible; which we’ve already both agreed is inaccurate and tampered with, so we can discount it. – However if you’re still certain that they exist then prove to me that they do please.
You go on to state “The wicked works of man is not God’s doing, rape, murder, etc. They are the works of the wicked one and his evil children,” – So why does the Bible claim that God endorses there “wicked works of man”? We know the answer to that, don’t we? Man created the Bible. Man also created God too. Our primitive ancestors asked the same question we still ask today: ‘Where did we come from and why are we here?’ They didn’t have science so they invented God or gods as an explanation. People who don’t or can’t understand science today still invent God as filler to fill the gaps in their knowledge and understanding.
I’m not angry at the deity itself; I’m angry at the idea of such a ridiculous concept. – Worse still I’m angry that people actually believe and live by it, despite science and understanding.
Being not 100% sure of what the entire whole truth is does not mean that I should start believing unsubstantiated and unverifiable fables in order to fill any gaps in my understanding.
I owe it to myself to follow truth and reality. An intelligent being creating and running the universe is as far from fact and truth & reality as can be. – At least according to the factual scientific evidence which you choose to ignore; in favour of fables told by Bronze-Age terrorists.
Enjoy today; for every today is the beginning of the rest of your life. J
Hi dear. Everyone must choose, must make their own choice. Father has never, will never force anyone to love him nor believe in him. Each of us must search out the truth by seeking the Creator of all things, whether you believe or not will not erase the truth.
God for me is like an invisible bride that crosses from the physical things to the natural things of the spiritual, you are not able to see it with the physical eyes but with faith as your eyes, you stepped onto that bridge and realized that you are standing on a solid foundation. Yahushua is that solid foundation in whom we believe.
There are those who will never believe and therefore will never stepped out in faith, believing only in their 5 senses, this is fear and weakness.
Those who have stepped out gingerly, but some loose faith, they got down on all fours turned around and headed right back to the flesh, too afraid to believe in the Bridge.
Those who stepped out on the bridge, too afraid to open their eyes, they hold on to the rail/person, eyes shut and not able to experience the journey because their faith is not in the Lord but in the security of others. These are the lukewarm, religious who put their trust in religion instead of the bride/Yahshua,
Then there are those who have stepped out in faith in the living God, eyes open and observing and experiencing the whole journey. They look around and observe, beholding the good, the Bad and the ugly. They hold fast to their faith in the invisible bridge/Yahshua, even though the faithless and the lukewarm around them, pelting unkind words at them because of their testimonies. The faithful have their eyes open and they are communicating with their bride/Yahshua experiencing the journey to the other side.
Now the faithless and the unbelievers (they that have not even begun the journey and they who are walking the bridge with their eyes shut) they are accusing and afflicting the faithful with darts, arrows, snares, traps, you name it.
Their words such such as, you are not hearing from the LORD, he has not shown you anything, he doesn’t speak to people anymore, you are hearing from demons, you are delusional, you are judging me.
Don’t allow your anger and your unbelief to kill your discernment, to kill that spark of Light/hope in you, of a perfect life in Christ.
Believe it or not, you have be indoctrinated into unbelief/atheism, as much as many folks have been indoctrinated into most false religions and lies for the past thousands of years.
Get control of your own thoughts and hopes and not settling for nothing at all, don’t you think that you owe this to yourself? We can be easily be deceived by the people we trust, and by the flesh. Things are not always what they seems, Truth is stranger than fiction, the world is far more complex than science and religion- let’s not sell ourselves short based on our LIMITED knowledge and understandings of our existence. The deception goes far deeper that you can imagine – we think we know something but we either knows nothing or barely knows anything at all.
From birth, we know right from wrong – do you think this was an accident – don’t let religion and science blind you to the truth, you need to come out of that state of eternal darkness/death you are in before it’s too late. It is science and religion that has divided us –again seek the one Creator God, Yahweh for the Truth. Because you don’t know him and you need to get to know him for yourself, be prepared to be awed!
If there is no God or intelligent Creator who designed this vast and complex Universe and this is just a Big Bang of an accident/evolution, then who cares about right or wrong? If this Creator God Created this perfection called the Universe, why doubt his holiness, or his Righteousness, or his perfection? Do you have without any doubt any shred of evidence of his character? I believe you are unjustly and without any evidence of who he truly is, condemning your Creator.
I really don’t need to be educated in the field of evolution. Most of science is a lie to deceive man into believing that there is no God or intelligent design.
I look forward to to spend eternity with the one who created me and all that exists, All Mighty and everlasting Yahweh.
Firstly I must ask you how much alcohol you ingested before writing the above? It appears that you were going to ignore me from your last reply onwards because you weren’t making any progress, and I was exposing the fallacy of your argument every time. – However maybe tonight you got a little tipsy, which gave you enough Dutch courage to give it a go regardless. – Something which appears evident in your disjointed and semi-incoherent presentation this time around.
In short, regardless of your state of intoxication or otherwise, nothing you’ve stated in your latest reply above makes any real sense or is backed by any evidence yet again. – It’s just more of the usual ramblings of your personal fantasy based upon your imagination.
We’ve already admitted in previous episodes that the Bible is corrupted, fallible, and not to be relied upon; to a point where it can be totally disregarded. In this episode you admit that everything you’re saying is based upon faith; meaning that there’s no evidence for any of it. – Also that it may be right; or maybe not? – Have faith in it anyway: Reality doesn’t work like that.
After you finished rambling on about a bride or a bridge or whatever… I couldn’t make any sense out of it; you then stated that:
“Believe it or not, you have be indoctrinated into unbelief/atheism, as much as many folks have been indoctrinated into most false religions and lies for the past thousands of years.”
That statement is a multiple oxymoron: No indoctrination is necessary for disbelief, only for belief in something that would make no sense to believe in in normal circumstances; such as most of the unsubstantiated and imaginary religious claptrap that has absolutely zero foundation upon fact and requires faith to be believed.
You then embark upon insulting my intelligence and patronising me thus:-
“Get control of your own thoughts and hopes and not settling for nothing at all,…” – Followed by further spiel talking down to me as if I were an empty-headed imbecile with a low intellect.
Remember YOU are the one who has belief in groundless and unprovable fantasies. The burden of proof is on your shoulders: You keep making these fantastical claims. – Fantastical claims call for credible evidence – yet you supply absolutely no evidence whatsoever.
You then go on to make a statement which is totally incorrect: –
“From birth, we know right from wrong – do you think this was an accident”
Incorrect: – At birth we have very little idea of anything. Newborn children have to be taught what is right and what is wrong. – Hopefully by somebody who believes in facts rather than faith and imaginations, otherwise the situation produces one extremely mixed-up kid who has a fallacious thinking pattern based upon superstition and fables rather than facts and reality.
You then go on about religion and science as if they were one and the same, rather than opposites. This then becomes another ramble about God – again without providing any citations or evidence.
In your following paragraph you go on to ask the question:
“If there is no God or intelligent Creator who designed this vast and complex Universe and this is just a Big Bang of an accident/evolution, then who cares about right or wrong?”
Again your question belies your ignorance of the facts of the theory of evolution; but the act of creation or evolution and the matter of right or wrong are about as relevant to one another as chalk and cheese. Morality is a separate issue and is irrelevant in this case. In the same paragraph you go on to say “IF this Creator God Created this perfection called the Universe…” Well that isn’t the case, and I’m saying that based upon overwhelming evidence; so we can discount the rest of the paragraph which again rambles on about how great this imaginary god is – who you STILL haven’t provided one shred of solid evidence for. (Because, as we both know, there is no evidence for imaginary beings.)
Your second-to-last paragraph reads thus:
“I really don’t need to be educated in the field of evolution. Most of science is a lie to deceive man into believing that there is no God or intelligent design. ”
That statement just shows that I’m talking to a blithering idiot, and I refuse to continue to waste my time doing so any further.
I apologise for losing my cool; but statements such as that are utterly ludicrous and so far beyond the depths of inanity that it becomes obvious that it’s not possible to have a sensible conversation with any person who would make such a statement. This conversation is terminated from this point.
Thank you for the debate up to now, and I wish you well for whatever future you may have.
I will ignore your judgemental statements about me. You shouldn’t twist my words, or maybe you haven’t understood a word I am saying to you. Either way, I forgive you.
And yes, unbelievers are indoctrinated into believing the lie that there is no intelligent design/Creator God. by the way I am not here to argue my faith with you, we are all free to believe what we want to believe and we make our own choice in this very delicate and complex life that was given to each of us and I thank My Father for my Life. you don.t have to throw stones at me because of my faith.
If you felt that I have insulted your intelligent, for that I apologized, it was never my intention. If you should ever need someone to reach out to and the internet is still up you know where to find me. I will not comment any further.
You take care.
Regardless of anything that’s gone before; I made no judgemental statements about you or twisted your words in any way: I reacted to exactly what you said, even quoting you word for word at times.
Again you state that unbelievers are indoctrinated..? OK so neither you nor I believe in the Tooth-Fairy, correct? Were we indoctrinated so that we don’t believe in the Tooth Fairy? No; and to assume that we were, or that it is necessary to be indoctrinated to not believe in that particular imaginary being, is simply ridiculous.
In the same manner no indoctrination is required to not believe in the imaginary being you’re talking about either.
“I am not here to argue my faith with you, we are all free to believe what we want to believe and we make our own choice.” – ‘Nice cop-out.
You actually mean: “I have no basis to substantiate my faith upon, nor proper evidence of even the existence of my god; therefore I’m attempting to make you look religiously intolerant in order that I can at least walk away from the discussion, in which I tendered no evidence and made my faith look almost as ridiculous as it actually is, with at least a little pride left, and without feeling totally humiliated.”
I am not throwing stones. – It’s something called facts. – You should try it sometime. I accept your apology for your insult to my intelligence, although in your last reply you almost did it again. I am sorry that I was too forthright; but I felt that you needed waking up to reality after that comment “I really don’t need to be educated in the field of evolution. Most of science is a lie to deceive man into believing that there is no God or intelligent design. ” – I mean there is the sublime and there is the ridiculous; but that comment goes so far beyond reality that it’s worse than ludicrous.
I am reaching out to you. I thought I was reaching out to your Human logic and rationality; but I find that I’m getting nowhere by doing so. – It’s like talking to a computer that says “I can’t understand it; therefore God.” as an answer to everything. I’m trying to get you to think for yourself and work it out for yourself – but I can’t because all you say is what you’ve been programmed to say: “It’s wonderful; therefore God.” or “I don’t understand it; therefore God.”
We’re both a part of the Human species, and I had hoped that we could find common ground despite our differences in belief. The problem is that while I put my fact-based and evidentially-substantiated arguments to you as logical reasoning; your replies consist purely of repetitions of some faith-based fairy-story that has no grounding in fact, nor does it have any solid evidence to support it.
It would be a similar scenario if I spoke to you about quantum mechanics and you replied that it all depends on some fairy story… In fact that is exactly what is happening almost. – And that’s why I am unable to continue with the conversation.
I wish you all the very best, and I hope that you one day manage to break free from this brainwashing that you’ve had from whatever source or wherever.
, with a Christian Theist lady by the name of Joan Findlay Matthews https://www.facebook.com/joan.findlaymatthews?fref=ufi
The URL of the conversation is
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